My guest today is Kasia aka Kathy, who is currently living in Copenhagen, Denmark with her family, she is the founder of Active Action a company that facilitates workshops for Expat spouses/partners and provides consulting services. Kathy is also a writer and contributes on a regular basis to The International Denmark.

Kasia  was born in Poland, and due to very difficult times in the 80’s her parents decided to leave their homeland and go to USA. There, Kasia spent her formative years until her twenties when she decided  to go back to Poland, which she never really left behind. While living and working In Poland, she met her husband, who interestingly comes from a culturally blended family. Kasia moved to Denmark, where they settled and started a family.  Kasia’s  journey is a fascinating example of exploration of cultures as well as self-determination.

Can you share an overview of your background?

I was born in Poland, my parents are both Polish. Life just takes us on all these journeys. For my parents, it was what happened in Poland: the political changes and life itself made them think about what they wanted for their family. That, took us on a journey first to Germany and then to the United States as political refugees. From the age of 10 to 23 I lived in Chicago. I always felt a very strong tie to Poland, it was really, really such strong pull I had. Maybe it was because I had good memories as a child, I was very close with my grandparents. Because we started moving around when I was a child,  I am a Cross Cultural Adult, a Re-pat and an Expat, all in one.

You were in Germany for how long?

It was a year and a half, but I was very lucky in the sense of schools and teachers that I met. In Germany, I went to a special class for international kids. It was a small class, about 20 of us, with all sorts of international backgrounds. We had a great teacher, her job was to teach us German so that we could actually enter the German schools. I learned German in less than a year. When I found out that I could go to a German school, we got our visas and we moved to the US. Once again I had to start all over…

How did your family communicate?

My parents were quite strict with speaking Polish. When I became fluent in English I thought, this is great, now I can speak it also at home. My parents said no no no. They kept Polish as the family language. I’m very thankful because I had friends whose parents were more lenient  and left the mother tongue language behind to practice English. This of course had consequences.

My parents were very good about giving me a strong cultural base. We kept to our Polish traditions for example, celebrating the holidays in a traditional way. It wasn’t easy because our family was back in Poland, and for a long time the holidays were almost a sad thing. We couldn’t visit because at that time communism was raging in Poland. If we were to go back, we wouldn’t be able to leave again. I think all of us felt nostalgia and missed our families so, we often celebrated holidays like Christmas and Easter with other Polish families.

Did your friends belong to multicultural families or were they well rooted in the American identity?

It was mixed, American as well as some first generation kids. I had 2 very, very good friends who were also Polish. Then I had some Mexican and German friends who were first generation. For them it was it was similar since they were speaking Spanish at home, ate Mexican food, celebrated different holidays.

The United States allowed me to experience so many cultures and religion. I am grateful for growing up with such a diverse group of friends. I was always very proud of my traditions and my background.

When you were 23, you went back to Poland. Why?

When I finished high school, I wasn’t sure about what I wanted to do in life. Initially, I was interested in becoming a physical therapist, there was an opportunity to study physical therapy in Poland and after obtaining the degree go back to the United States. That was the original plan, but then my dad fell sick and after a while my parents decided to move back to Poland for him to easily access medical care.

It would be about a year before they could move away from US. In the meantime, I decided to change my studies and  pursued Cultural Studies in Poland.

When you moved to Poland, did you find yourself proficient in Polish? Speaking Polish at home compared to the university vocabulary must have been different, was it hard?

It was my first huge challenge. I remember when I stepped into the university speaking to my new colleagues was fine. But we went into a class and it was called the Sociology of Culture. The professor started speaking, and I thought, I don’t understand anything. I remember that I was actually trying to take the notes in English because at that time I was more comfortable with academic language in English. I thought, Oh my gosh, what am I going to do? I bought myself a Polish – Polish dictionary and I spent so much time just preparing and going over notes. I had friends that would help me out and they would give me their notes. The first year of my studies was a big struggle. I had to focus a lot on filling this gap.

You were studying in Poland, what happened next?

While studying, I started working. I was able to do a lot of translations, working as an interpreter. I found out there was a school for translators where you could get a diploma and become a certified translator. I was studying two different things at the same time, while doing a bit of work on the side. When I got my Master degrees in Cultural Studies and as a certified translator, I was hired as a teacher. This was another challenge because it was not something I had done before. My first teaching job was at a big corporation, a Portuguese company that had opened a chain of stores in Poland. I really enjoyed teaching and working with people. Later, I opened my own business, teaching corporate English. I was very busy and worked long hours. I had a nice apartment, I had a nice social life, but I was alone. And, you know, when you put it out there things happen. I met my Danish husband in Poland shortly after. Things happened quite fast, we were pretty sure that we wanted to be together. It was difficult because his background is in construction, engineering and architecture. For him to be in Poland would have been very difficult because he would have to know the Polish building laws and speak fluent Polish. We thought that it would be better if I moved to Denmark and that’s what we did. And it was the hardest thing ever.

How come?

Well, first and foremost I had a lot of expectations. Looking back, they were not at all realistic. I think it was typical and something many internationals/expats struggle with. The first year, we travelled back and forth – the joys of a long distance relationship. You never get a clear picture of everyday life when you are in a holiday mode. The reality was very different from my expectations.

We started our lives in Odense, the third largest city in Denmark. However, 10 years ago this city was very different from what it is today. Back then, there was not a lot of interest in the Internationals and what they were struggling with. It was tough and I felt alone. Through Danish classes I was able to meet some wonderful friends. I also decided to study in Odense because I felt completely burnt out and wanted to do something for myself. Studying in Denmark was great, but I did not meet as many people as I hoped. My fellow students were a bit younger and in a different place in their lives.

The most difficult time came around when I finished studies and I started looking for work. I was looking for a specific job that would fit, my basic knowledge of Danish, my qualifications and was in the city where I was living. When I arrived in Denmark, I went from working all the time to my husband being the sole breadwinner. This was a drastic change that made me feel like I was not contributing. Living in a new country with a new language – not an easy one is hard. When you add to it unemployment , it gets even more tricky.

When I started looking for work, I thought it would be easy: I was highly educated, had experience and spoke a few languages. It was probably a year and a half of trying to find work. I went through all the whys. Why don’t they want to hire me? What’s wrong with me? What am I doing wrong? I mean, it was a very negative mindset, and I was heading for severe depression. Then my husband and I came to a conclusion that we would give it six months, and if I didn’t get hired we would move to Poland. Sometimes, we have to look at things in a different perspective.

I started to apply for a lot of different jobs and actually started listening to the advice people were giving me. They told me I was doing things “the Polish way”. Some people told me to visit potential workplaces in person. The first one I went to, I got an interview right away. In the end I landed a job, which I had not held previously, but I had the skills that were needed for this position. I think it is important to be aware that as expats we often have to step out of our comfort zones. I began working as a Marketing Specialist in an International company. I was very happy to finally be employed. So much so, that I was willing to commute to the other side of Denmark. We eventually moved, so that both of us had  the same commuting distance in different directions. I was there for over 2 years, and then I got pregnant. When my year of maternity leave was coming to an end, I started feeling like I didn’t want to go back to work. So I gave up the job that I searched for so long. I stayed home with my daughter for three years. While I was on maternity leave I founded an international moms’ group. I really wanted to have other women who are internationals around me. I felt a need to have like minded women who could relate to one another, discuss raising kids, what challenges we were going through, especially as expats without family support.

When we signed our daughter up for preschool, my husband received a job offer in Copenhagen. His parents live there, and we thought it was a good time to make a transition. Once again, It was my time again to think about what I would like to do. What a gift, to be able to find something you love and call it work.  I knew I wanted to be my own boss again and I wanted to help other internationals so, I founded Active Action.

What does Active Action do exactly?

Active Action supports companies, organisations and institutions in order to increase attraction and specifically retention. Through our workshops, programs and consultations we provide the tools which enable Internationals, their employers and communities to find mutual understanding and solutions. Active Action is all about smoother transitions, acknowledgement, raising cultural awareness and providing solutions for each International and their families, for the employers and employees, for the municipalities and organisations welcoming newcomers.

Basically, Active Action is all about supporting Expat Spouses/Partners so that they have smoother transitions into a new host country and that they obtain the tools and knowledge to lead thriving lives abroad.

When you do the workshops, who are your customers?

My customers range from international companies, universities that hire large amounts expats and internationals to municipalities and embassies. I also provide consulting services.

Going back to your family, what languages do you speak at home?

My husband and I speak English to each other. My husband speaks Danish to our daughter and I speak Polish to her. I understand Danish and my husband has taken Polish classes, he understands most of what I say. Understanding one another’s mother tongue is a huge advantage and this way no one is ever excluded from conversations.

You are native in two languages. Did it make it easier for you to learn Danish? Does it affect the way you express yourself?

Take for example my name. When I came to Denmark, I would use my Polish name but people would just butcher it with the worst pronunciations. I started using my American name, which is Kathy, much easier. But honestly, when people ask me, I say you can choose whichever you want, they are parallel for me. I feel like I have a split personality because I feel equally comfortable in both. My whole life I was kind of two people, my Polish self at home, with my family, but then I also always had the international me, when using English.

Learning Danish as an adult was actually quite difficult. I don’t have any difficulty expressing myself in English and Polish, now Danish is a different story…

Overall, would you say being raised in a multicultural environment was an asset for you? Why?

Growing up in a multicultural environment was one of the greatest gifts I have received in my life. It has shaped me into the person I am today. It made me interested in different cultures, languages, cuisines, travel and people. I also learned to communicate, be friends with, work with and live among various nations and religions. I am open, tolerant and respectful of people and curious about the world. I think it was wonderful to grow up and have friends from all over the world. I think that is partially the reason why I live abroad myself. Now, my husband and I are able to give this gift to our daughter.

No doubt Kasia will be up for the challenge of helping expat spouses integrating in the Danish job market, thanks to her personal experience, professional expertise, and incredible drive. Once again, it’s inspiring to witness the openness that derives from getting to know new places and cultures. If you want to follow Kasia’s work and story, like Active Action Facebook page or follow her on Instagram.

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Katerina contacted me from The Netherlands with a rich story about cultural identity. She was born in Switzerland to a Spanish mother and a German father. Her family lived a couple of years in Germany, and then moved to Brussels, which, she explains, “is very multicultural and it’s not Flemish, it’s not Walloon, it’s not German, it’s Brussels“. She attended the European school in the Belgian capital, which introduced her to several different cultures and an underlying message of respecting diversity. That meant also “to put your own national values, the things that make you German, Spanish, to put them aside and adopt broader values where everybody fits in”. She and her three sisters grew up in a neighbourhood she defines as “Belgian and to a certain degree Arabic”. When they lived in Switzerland, her parents used to talk French to each other. After moving to Germany, her mother learned German language and started regularly speaking it at home with her children and husband. While they were living in Belgium, she was the main carer. As a result, Katerina tells me she doesn’t speak Spanish and her main language is German, even though she learned it through a non-native speaker. She describes her situation as “the disconnect of speaking one language [German] and not really knowing what it means to be a German kid”. She feels she missed many key experiences of growing up as a German child, like kindergarten songs, TV programmes, children’s books. At the same time, she didn’t experience the Spanish upbringing or Belgian education, which placed her in the middle of all these cultures: “My parents didn’t think how the different cultures fitted with each other”.

Katerina and her husband, in Marocco.

While in school she met her future husband, who belonged to an Irish family. They have four daughters together aged from 3 years to 8 years old, all born and raised in The Netherlands. Tragically, he passed away in late 2016. Beside the trauma of losing her spouse, Katerina found herself with many questions regarding the cultural identity of her children. Given her personal history, she is fully aware of the power of roots and strongly feels the responsibility to introduce her children to their father’s birth culture. Katerina and her husband used to speak English with each other and, as a consequence, the family culture leaned more towards the Irish side. She had some strategies in place to foster German culture already and recently she found herself having to set up similar patterns to enforce the Irish cultural roots, which she is little familiar with. “Since my husband passed away, my struggle has been to give the kids enough Irish culture that they can have the roots if they want to, while not knowing anything about being an Irish kid [myself]”. For instance, her daughters have visited their maternal grandmother in Ireland last summer and Katerina is planning to send them to Gaelic camps later on: “the language is the vehicle to be part of the culture”. She perceives her children feel mostly Irish.

One of Katerina’s girls, during a holiday in US.

Katerina makes conscious choices about exposing her girls to different cultures, maybe also due to her professional background as a researcher in professional and social identity, which includes exploring minorities and the impact of cultural identity at work. “I think that helped me to reflect on what happened”.
Her opinion is that growing in a multicultural family “is an asset because it provides you flexibility to find a place you can call home”. She says sometimes she’s jealous of people who have defined origins, but adds, “[a multicultural family] gives you the tools to build the strong roots you choose to have”. She advises fellow parents to rely on children’s books. I totally agree, that’s our favourite and most effective communication tool.

The girls meet their youngest sister minutes after she was born.

This interview provided me with plenty of insights about how a child, and later an adult, can feel about growing up in a multicultural environment. After talking to Katerina, I am stronger in my belief that we parents can have a huge impact on how our children feel. Being an expat I’m familiar with the constant discomfort of not having a place to truly call home and I don’t want that for my kids. At the same time, when Katerina shared how her mother put aside her birth culture when raising her children, it didn’t feel like a convenient trade-off. We cannot ignore our birth culture is the one we know the most and can truly impart to our children. I am grateful to Katerina for sharing her unique point of view and also her painful experiences to the benefit of other parents. You can read more about Katerina’s family life and story on her blog, or follow her on Instagram and Twitter.

If you liked this post, you may want to check out the others in this series.

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I have sat down for coffee with Ping to hear about his experience. He was born in China from Chinese parents, then at age ten moved to Finland with his mother and her Finnish second husband. “[Being ten years old] I was a little aware of Chinese culture and language” he says and, to my surprise, adds “When I moved to Finland there was no cultural shock. I just started studying the language and got along pretty quickly”. At home, he would speak Chinese to his mother and Finnish when his step-father was taking part to the conversation. He maintained a good level of spoken Chinese for everyday conversation, but says he’s missing the professional vocabulary and cannot write anymore.

His family moved to a town of 40 000 about 50 km away from the capital area. There were other Chinese families in his living area, but their kids’ ages didn’t match with Ping’s. This represented an obstacle for him to maintain a connection to his Chinese roots and cultivate language. “I remember taking some Chinese classes during elementary school and my mother was a teacher, she also taught [Mandarin] to other Chinese children”. He would follow his mother’s lesson, but they were targeted at children with lesser ability to speak Mandarin and would not carry much value for him. The school system had a crucial role in his integration. Despite being quite small, the town had a school programme targeted at immigrant children. It allowed him to gradually learn Finnish language and after six months he was transferred to a normal class with other Finnish kids. He reveals: “I think in Finnish most of the time, but sometimes I think in English. The oddest thing is that I still count in Chinese”.

I asked him if beside language, Chinese culture was brought into family life. “We celebrated some Chinese holidays like the New Year  with other Chinese people. We went to a restaurant and ate”. Chinese food (“as Chinese as you could get it here” he says) was also part of their family daily life. Nowadays, only occasionally he cooks Chinese food at home. My favourite question came up, does he identify more as Chinese, as Finnish, or something in the middle? “At the beginning I felt Chinese, nowadays I definitely think I’m a Finn”. He has few contacts with Chinese people living in Finland, he does not feel any need to. And what about his mother? After almost twenty years, “I think she is still a Chinese living in Finland. She speaks pretty broken Finnish. She can manage with it in day-to-day life and at work, but the grammar is a little wonky”. However, he points out living in Finland changed her ways of thinking and affected her parenting. She became less strict, especially in the context of her son’s education.

Ping has no children, but I asked him what parts of Chinese culture he imagines he would include in his family life. He would not speak Chinese to his kids as he doesn’t feel confident. He would like to pass on Chinese culture, without forcing it in any way. “[Growing in a multicultural family] was not particularly an asset. There are good parts and inconvenient parts. Like, everyone talks English to me here and I’m like, I can speak Finnish. Then again, there are some benefits to know some things of other cultures. I’m pretty thankful that my mother moved to Finland with me. There are so many people in China and competition is so fierce that I would probably vanish into the mass. Here in Finland it’s easier to stand out”.

As usual, I asked for advice for parents of multicultural kids. He stressed language can be an asset and he regrets not fostering Chinese language. He recommends to encourage kids to learn or keep the foreign language. Concerning culture, he concludes “What will happen, will happen. Just let everything go forward naturally. Do not stress too much [the minority culture]. If the kids want to know more about it, teach them”.

This story was very different from Raj’s. I had the feeling the minority culture got quite lost in time in Ping identity. As an expat parent, I see a trade-off between a smooth cultural integration and a chance to share cultural values with my children. I must admit I am afraid when I think of what parts of my culture my children will lose on the way. There’s a human core wish to somehow survive inside your children’s identities. It’s somehow scary to think that in them big chunks of me will be overwritten by Finnish culture. On the other hand, I was really pleased to hear how smoothly and quickly Ping integrated here, to the point of not feeling torn between two cultures at all.

I am thankful to him for sharing his story about growing up in a multicultural family. If you want to share yours, don’t hesitate to contact me.

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I had a deep conversation with Raj, a friend of mine. He was born and raised in India, then moved with his parents and younger brother to the US at the age of 12, and came to live in Finland at the age of 24.
“My parents are both from the North of India” he tells me, “That’s a very Anglo-Indian part of India. We aren’t considered real Indians compared to those who comes from South India – the natives – because there’s a lot of mix from other cultures. There’s Iranian influence, German influence, and so on”.
I ask him what languages were spoken in his family, “We spoke Hindi mostly and when we moved to the States sometime we spoke English at home, mostly with my brother”. Growing up in India, he was fluent in the official languages, English and Hindi, and in the local language Marathi. As a kid, he was surrounded by people coming from other states and picked up Punjabi and Bengali as well.

Raj explains me how language developed for him and why it felt more natural to talk with his brother in English, despite they were respectively 12 and 9 when they moved to the US. “When it came to complex emotions, I couldn’t express them in Hindi because I was learning them from my friends in school. For instance a romantic connection or expression of a romantic relationship is actually very difficult for me in Hindi”. At the same time, he reveals that when he feels anxious, he impulsively says few words in Hindi. Despite that, he tells me both his thoughts and dreams are always in English. I’m curious to know what language he would feel as most natural with a child of his own, since he lived through his parental relationships in Hindi. He shares his plans to integrate Indian culture into his family, probably through connecting with Indian expats in Finland and travelling as much as possible to India. However, he would feel more natural to talk to his children in English on a daily basis.

His parents focused on preserving Indian culture in the family, but at the same time allowed their kids to take part into American culture. “They never put restrictions on what we had to choose, so if we felt uncomfortable with something, we were allowed to skip it. They are quite religious but they understood they could not force culture, religion, on anyone”. Raj’s parents were in their late 40s when they moved to the States, their kids were quite independent already in their social life, and they didn’t open much to American culture. He goes on explaining me his upbringing, quite rare for Indian standards “Unlike most Indian families we don’t follow a hierarchy. We were told from a very early age that whoever is right goes forward, as in, if there’s a discussion and I happen to have the best solution, then I’m the one who gets precedence. It’s not my father or my mother because they’re older”. This aspect of their education had a big role in allowing Raj and his brother the freedom to build their mixed cultural identity.

I go on and get to the central question: how does he feel now? Indian, American? Or something else entirely? “I feel a little bit of both, and Finland is definitely influencing me as well. On a deeper level, I would say I have Indian roots, but what people see on the outside is a little bit more American”. He concludes, it’s a mixture of both. To the day he questions it, as many typical Indian customs and tradition don’t belong to him at all. He tells me India shaped his childhood, while USA and Finland built his identity as a teenager and an adult. Both in India and in New York, he lived surrounded by people with different cultures.

I ask him if he sees growing in a multicultural environment as an asset and he tells me, “When you have tried different things, then you know what to pick from each culture, so that you can make the best decision, you take the best things out of everything”. Raj’s diverse background was also a kind of ice-breaker in the US, to start new friendships. He never felt discriminated because of his culture and roots. His parents never gave him any talk about his skin colour, but tried to make their family a safe space for their kids to talk about any issue. I was happy to hear this comment of his as a son, since it’s the same strategy we resolved to implement in our family.

I am grateful to Raj for sharing his story. It’s fascinating to hear that he grew up in such a diverse environment and speaks so many languages (I have to add he also went on to learn Swedish, German, and Finnish as an adult). I feel some comfort as he tells me how his cultural identity built quite naturally. I have the impression he questions that as an adult, and he didn’t much while growing up. Kudos to his parents and how they managed to preserve his birth culture, but still favour his integration.

I’ll publish more posts on the topic, follow the tag GUMF series. If you grew up in a multicultural family and feel you have a story to tell, don’t hesitate to contact me.

Disclaimer: names have been changed for privacy, as requested by the interviewee. The conversation was carried out in English language and reported as faithfully as possible.

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